The fate of the Rebel flag | The Hays Free Press
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The fate of the Rebel flag

Posted by on Nov 14th, 2012 and filed under Featured, For Front Page Use, Schools.


Cheerleaders Kassidy Kinsey and Sierra Lambeck, Hays High School seniors, wearing their personalized overalls on Rebel Pride Day in September. (Photo by Sandy Kinsey)

by KIM HILSENEBCK

It was an emotional Monday for several Hays CISD board members as they debated well into the night the tenuous future of the Rebel flag on student personal property at the November regular board meeting.

The district has spent the past month gathering input from Hays High School students and teachers about whether or not the Confederate flag should be allowed to be displayed on personal property while that property is on school premises.

That research, in part based on focus groups with 23 Hays High students, led to the recommendation to amend the Student Code of Conduct rules to unilaterally ban the flag and all offensive imagery from personal property, including clothing and vehicles at all campuses, not just the high school.

At Monday’s meeting, the first reading of that recommendation took place. Discussion among board members then lasted more than an hour.

Trustees were at times passionate, some verging on tears as they shared personal and constituents’ points of view.

“It’s a fact that people see the flag as a symbol of pride, others see it as intolerable,” said board member Robert Limon, whose son attends Hays High. “It’s a divisive issue in our community.”

Many board members said they are split on the issue because at its core, it is confounding and complex.

On one hand, board member Marty Kanetzky said, “I have gone ‘round and ‘round again on this issue because I took an oath [as a board member] to uphold the [U.S.] Constitution, which says something about free speech.”

She continued, at times with her voice wavering, “But I don’t want any student or faculty member to feel harassed. I’m having a real hard time.”

Kanetzky also said she feels the district came down with a hammer on an issue that could have been handled more appropriately, alluding to the campus administration’s tendency to act without having a clear, consistent policy and enforcement of displaying the Rebel flag.

Board member Meredith Keller said she would like to see the issue of students wearing clothing on campus or at school events separate from students displaying the flag on personal vehicles.

“I somewhat object to this being in the Student Code of Conduct. I feel strongly that it should be separated into two things…and that’s because our board has the right to determine [the dress code]. What concerns me is whether or not we have the right to decide what a child can have on their car in the parking lot. That seems to me to be a separate issue.”

She said another concern about making this change to the Student Code of Conduct is that it is subject to annual revisions, whereas a policy change would be a once and done deal.

Trustee Sean Bosar appeared emotional when he spoke about having to make the decision about banning the Rebel flag.

“I’m split,” he said. “The discussion we’re having is about intolerance and people being hurt.”

He also noted that many of the public speakers hooked the flag and the Rebel symbol and the Dixie fight song together.

“It’s preposterous and crazy to say, the flag is inappropriate but the song does nothing,” he said.

Superintendent Jeremy Lyon reminded Bosar that the charge to the board was to recommend whether or not to allow students to display the flag on personal property; the school fight song and Rebel image are not on the table at this time.

“Can you still be a Rebel without the Confederate flag or Dixie?” asked trustee Holly Raymond, a 1996 graduate of Hays High School.

Her eyes watered as she talked about her struggle to separate school pride from the offensiveness of the image to some community members.

“I know what it’s like to be a student here and what the flag means at Hays. But I also knew not to wear it into Austin because it would offend someone,” she said. “I wouldn’t wear it today. But that’s my personal choice.”

For his part, Lyon supports banning the flag.

“We’re not trying to erase the past or denigrate anyone’s history. It is a legacy of our district. But, we also have the diversity here before us to do the work so that our students have the best opportunity to succeed in this world,” Lyon said.

Eleven community members also spoke during the opening hearing portion of the meeting, most siding with support of the ban.

Lehman High School student Cheryl Rivers told the board the Confederate flag is not a welcoming symbol.

“Hays has great teachers, but the majority of Lehman kids would not want to go to Hays because it’s not welcoming,” she said. “I hope you make the right decision.”

The board of trustees agreed they have their work cut out for them on this issue. December’s meeting will include the second reading of the recommendation; the board will vote on the issue at that time.

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  • Billy-Bob Thornton

    See? I told you so!

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    Another example of PC getting in the way of peoples choices

    ive no problem with any entity deciding what they do with their premises BUT CARS ARE PRIVATE PROPERTY OF THE INDIVIDUAL ive seen many signs / slogans on private property i dont like ( could be offended ) would i want to ban them ABSOLUTELY NOT.

    we have free speech in this country banning is just another means of censorship and very very restrictive only allowing certain opinions /beliefs to flourish, not what the foundling fathers intended .

    soon we will be a nation restricted / banned from saying or showing anything for fear of **offending somebody somewhere ** a nation of speechless zombies .remember free speech means just that ,you dont have to like it , no need to protect it if we all agreed with what was said or done .

  • lila Knight

    So John. Tell us. Should we teach intolerance in our schools? Should we set a bad example? Or just freedom/anarchy in the name of anything? If I recall correctly, the Constitution is about liberty, freedom, and justice for ALL.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Fulton/1816794626 Mike Fulton

    John-
    Free speech does not apply to this situation. The law allows for great restrictions to student freedoms where schools are concerned, as evidenced by the rules against things such as alcohol and tobacco advertising.

    I agree with your sentiment about protecting free speech, it just does not apply here. Schools are places to learn. If we expect to teach all children equally (and compel them by law to attend) then it should be a place without imagery that is overtly offensive to some of the students who are forced to attend.

    Having said that, the discussion should not be focused just on student display of the Confederate flag. We should be addressing a school culture that makes displaying it seem normal or acceptable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    then where is the justice for those who dont think the flag is objectionable they have rights to . banning the flag IS intolerance of others peoples rights .

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    MIKE yes shools are places to learn .
    how can we teach children to compromise and except others poeples views if we just go ahead and ban a object just because a minority object to it . in its self it does no harm it is only a flag ,you can read into it what you want ..cus some folks consider it a expression of bigotry and oppression does,nt make it so . most folks that show that flag do NOT do it for racial reasons . understanding is the key here just as many people are offended by the ban as those who oppose it .

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Fulton/1816794626 Mike Fulton

    How far does “majority rules” go before the rights of the minority are taken into account? Would you let it go to the same degree if you were the minority?

  • lila Knight

    An individual’s computer is private property. If they are storing child pornography on it – are you good with that? It would certainly offend me. And I’m thinking it would offend you as well. Is this type of thought protected under your interpretation?

  • Mary

    as I have said to many others about this subject….do we ban the union jack? if I recall we left Britain and their flag was something meaning oppression to our forefathers (not us) and we have learned to accept it as a historical reminder of our roots….I know I have nothing against the flag and I’m pretty sure MANY folks of all cultures and backgrounds were not offended with all of the union jack items floating around during the olympics. I’m sorry but I dont see how it offends anyone of today’s era when we dont have people using it as a moniker for their ignorance of being intolerant. If students or others were wearing this flag and presenting it as anything other than SCHOOL PRIDE I would understand. Another comment says Lehman students wont go to Hays because its unwelcoming. Well I would think that is an issue that goes beyond the school flag/song/mascot….that to me says we have an issue with the people of the school not being open, BUT from my little experience with a daughter at Hays, the unwelcome feeling is the standard school rivalry of any 2 High Schools in the same district.

    For those wondering YES there are schools in the US that fly the Union Jack as their school symbol….Churchill HS in San Antonio is a local school that shows their pride in that symbol

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    stupid answer Lila you know better then that .child pornograhy is illegal showing a flag isnt and in that case you are not BANNING computers just the showing of pornography differant animal .

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    MOB RULE is never right in my opinion because the *majority * have no objections to the flag does,nt make it right but because a * minority * have objections does,nt make their rights any more viable than those that do .as i say a little tolerance on BOTH sides as in all matters of this kind would be a great step forward for humanity

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    QUESTION FOR BOTH LILA AND MIKE

    A s you know im from across the seas. im American now and PROUD of it. in the UK we have the union jack *flag * A symbol of the heritage history and culture of the UK .the british empire as it was then governed much of the world and many many atrocities were committed in the name of * king and country *

    the flag showing of brings much emotion, pride ,and patriotism to the millions who honor it each & every time .
    owing to our history of bigotry , suppression , denial of human rights etc etc to many citizens of the occupied countries do you think it the * UNION JACK * should be banned cus some folks * may * take offense ? much the same could be said for our own flag * STARS & STRIPES * do you think that should be banned also ?

    many folks expecially those from middle east countries are offended by the thought of american imperialism . JUST SOMETHING FOR YOU TO THINK ABOUT ..

  • d.lovell1157

    What happened to the freedom of speech? I feel this should be an individuals right to display the flag. I object in so many ways. I pray for this great nation and our leaders to do the right thing… this includes those at a city and county level, school board members, and teacher and our students.

  • jeskew36

    I think all of this is just a load of crap….The Rebel flag has always been a symbol of pride at Hays and nothing more…It should not be banned. Hays is not unwelcoming to any newcomers to the school. The deal with Lehman and Hays is a rivalry, nothing to do with the freaking flag…..Leave it be…….

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    i could understand if the flag in its conception had a (not to offend anybody ) a African American hanging from a tree and thats the story it told YES it would mean nothing else it would be racist .bigoted and offensive those perpetuating such a disgrace would and should be punished end of story

    but this is not so, the flag its self is innocuous , it means different things to differant folks picking out one group and applying that to all is in my mind dictatorial , unfair and bias

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    PS Should have flown my **union jack ** yesterday as it was Prince Charles Birthday .didnt thou in case it offended some poor bastard

  • lila Knight

    The Confederate States seceded from the Union specifically to preserve the institution of slavery. I understand there are many who would like to revise this history. But if you will read the original documents, the Declaration of Causes of Secession of the various states, you can read with your own eyes the truth. The Confederate Flag was created to fly over the Confederacy. At that time, it became a symbol of the Confederacy of States that seceded for the purpose of continuing to enslave people.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying. If the flag actually depicted an image of human carnage and abuse, you would be offended. But since it is just an abstract symbol, you are not? Symbols are not innocuous. Symbols tell others something about our own character. I was very surprised to learn at the School Board meeting that the Dixie song is not played at out of town games. Why would you keep a symbolic fight song that you do not feel free to play anywhere?

    And I do understand that not everyone who wears/displays this flag is necessarily endorsing slavery/racism. But when they talk about Southern pride and heritage, I wonder what our students are being taught. And no, it’s not political correctness. But maybe, for some, it’s an issue of heritage correctness. But these are issues for the adults in our community. Not our children. I fear our children may have become mere pawns. And if that is true, then it is very, very wrong. And hurtful to our entire community. And our schools deserve better leadership than this.

  • lila Knight

    Mary, I am assuming you were not at the School Board meeting this week. There were people there who had previously had experiences AT Hays High School (before there was a Lehman High School) who related that the flag and the Dixie fight song were hurtful to them. But they endured. Was that fair? I don’t know.

    But quite frankly, there ARE people today still co-opting the Confederate flag in ways that would chill your blood to the bone. And some have made appearances on this website. They don’t call it the worldwide web for nothing…

  • Rebecca Stanley

    Lila, get a life……find something to do with your time, REALLY….And Mike Fulton, you too. This is the Mike Fulton was/is the president of the HOA of Silverado subdivision in Kyle. Mike had a surveillance video camera that was at the community pool , but was manned by Mike in his home….kinda creepy….and you want to give an opinion , HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Rebecca Stanley

    How can Hays be “unwelcoming”?? If you don’t feel welcome, well leave……No one else has had that complaint. We could even say that Lehman is “unwelcoming” because they have NOTHING TO OFFER TO US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People get a clue, and focus on real issues….

  • lila Knight

    I guess your statement pretty well sums up why some people might perceive Hays High School to be “unwelcoming.” But I am going to continue to believe that people like yourself are a minority… at least, I would hope so. Maybe you should just calm down a notch or two.

  • Angelina

    Indeed you did, Billy-Bob. Indeed you did.

  • Rebecca Stanley

    Hey Lila, Me calm down a notch or two? Take your own advise and quit getting so involved in things that do not concern you? How long have you lived in this areas? Do you have children that attend Hays? I am the MAJORITY, so come make me tone it down a notch or two, bring it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • mary

    sadly I was not there, I was holding our PTA meeting at Negley and offering support to our staff that had lost one of their former students….I have not seen anyone doing anything with this symbol outside of school spirit and pride….I hate letting our young ones focus so hard on the hatred of past symbols vs knowing about it but moving forward by reversing its meaning

  • Tired of the flag

    Rebecca – y’all can wave your confederate flag all y’all want in your trailer park but it don’t belong in the schools. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.atkins.1257 John Atkins

    LILA still not on point what the flag was or is and why it is displayed by differant fractions is not the point im making this goes back to the person who had her car booted cus she had a flag on or in it . the school or anybody else has no right to interfere with what a person displays on their private property unless it can be shown to be illegal

    as you pointed out with childporn on the computer .

  • Lila Knight

    You were definitely in the right place. Thank you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Fulton/1816794626 Mike Fulton

    The problem with that comparison is that the Union Jack (and the US flag) represents an active nation. It represents a nation of successes, failures, high points, low points, land, and millions of current citizens. The confederate flag represents a failed rebellion against our nation, a rebellion for the right to own people as property.

    The entirety of the history of the Confederate flag is a fight against our nation for a cause that today, is universally accepted as evil.

  • willmcmanus

    Forgetting the national historical significance for a moment let’s look at the historical context specifically with Jack C. Hays and the confederacy. There isn’t any. We can make this a larger issue if we choose but just so long as we all remember there is no great southern heritage in Buda, TX. If we are completely honest about it our heritage is much more closely tied to Mexico rather than the true deep south states. Yes, Texas was a slave-holding state but to somehow associate that with our local high school history is crazy. Reminder – Jack C. Hays was not a confederate soldier and this school has only been around since the 1960′s.

    Has anyone ever bothered to ask the founders of this school why they chose this mascot and “theme” for the merging of the Kyle and Buda school districts? Perhaps we should and then maybe we’ll get the real historical context of the name. Maybe they drew it out of a hat or maybe there is some real meaning. Maybe we should ask.

    Finally, Travis HS in Austin has been through this as well. They changed their fight song, symbols, and imagery to move away from the “history of the south.” They have survived. Hopefully our local administration has reached out to Travis to see how they did it, what worked, and what they would do differently.

    And the real finally – Lila, the band does play Dixie at away football games. They do not play it at places that specifically state that it is banned like when they last traveled to Disney World.

  • willmcmanus

    Rebecca – I am not sure how screaming about a school being welcoming and at the same time telling those that disagree to leave makes any sense at all. Is that really what you want to be known for as a community, school, and person? “C’mon in, we have room for everyone. So long as you agree with us.” I am sure that the students and staff and Lehman would argue that they have plenty to offer and you know what – they’re right. This community has plenty of room for a wide variety of opinions, thoughts, and ideas. You may not like them but try a calm, thoughtful response and you’ll be surprised at how far you’ll get.

  • dassy

    How many school namesakes match the school mascots? It’s not the Lehman Farmers, it’s not the Reagan Governors, it’s not the Lanier Poets, it’s not the San Marcos New Testament Saints. The largest Confederate veterans reunion in the nation and one of the oldest, is near Driftwood. People from Wimberley (originally part of Hays CISD) and Driftwood, Buda and Kyle–all attended this big event every summer. Odds are that that was what students and faculty had in mind when they chose the mascot. I’m not opposed to making changes, just think we need perspective.

  • lila Knight

    According to Gene Johnson’s book, the Buda High School students selected the mascot from the Rangers or the Rebels (and maybe one other choice). Kyle students picked the colors. But it seems everyone’s memory is foggy. Might be interesting to see if the newspaper reported on it.

    And my bad on not totally understanding the circumstances of the playing of the song. I was going on what I heard at comments. Should know better. LOL Although the original fight song was “On Wisconsin.” Will have to look that one up.

  • willmcmanus

    You have made my point exactly. Many folks in this debate like to tie some deep history of the name Rebels to both the school and this region. We need to avoid that temptation and make sense of how we got to where we are and who we want to be going forward. I fail to see how a reunion in Driftwood has anything to do with this as I suspect that there are sons/daughters of the confederacy events all over this country.

    The topic at hand is two-fold – one is what will be allowed for students to wear on campus and two, can the same policy and enforcement be extended to personal property such as cars that might park on district owned property. One is easy as far what the district has a right to deem appropriate school clothing but two is tricky and I am still thinking through that one.

  • lila Knight

    I don’t think the School can regulate the actions of adults who are on school grounds for a game. Although, don’t they prohibit smoking on school grounds? And drinking?

    But really, the question before the School Board is not about adults. It’s specifically about the Student Code of Conduct as it relates to the Confederate flag. So they aren’t even going there.

  • willmcmanus

    Sorry, I meant specifically the students cars.

  • Dassy

    Will–my response was to the following which you wrote.

    “Reminder – Jack C. Hays was not a confederate soldier and this school has only been around since the 1960′s……Has anyone ever bothered to ask the founders of this school why they chose this mascot and “theme” for the merging of the Kyle and Buda school districts? Perhaps we should and then maybe we’ll get the real historical context of the name. Maybe they drew it out of a hat or maybe there is some real meaning. Maybe we should ask.”

    I think my response goes directly to what you wrote. I was not saying that “wow those folks sure nailed it when they adopted Rebels as the mascot—I’m just answering the question you asked—”how did we get the mascot.” Thanks!

  • lila Knight

    Good point Dassy. And it’s really this kind of research that is missing. And not just reminiscences. But real research.
    Not sure if it makes a difference in the decision-making of all of our School Board members, but if it helps our community to understand – it would be worth the effort.

  • jwigginsburns

    It is easy for this very emotional discussion to be sidetracked. The issue is whether the School Board and administration can add a prohibition on the display of the flag on clothing, and on items such as backpacks, to the dress code/code of student conduct. I think that if they need that change to be made in order to enforce civil behavior on campus, then yes, they can and should do it. I can’t quote it, but I think there is pretty good case law suggesting that constitutional rights end at the school entrance. Students have to get permission to use the rest room during class-just an example of the limitation of constitutional rights.

  • Todd

    Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Supreme court has upheld that that includes flags and minorities whether it’s nice or not and those rights are not suspended at the school door. It comes down to how hard to push back if a ban is put in place.

  • anon

    “No one else has had that complaint.” Um…Mrs. Murphy?

  • Wayne_J_Billipoint_III

    Wow…way to stick to the issues and not make things personal Rebecca

  • http://twitter.com/DarkKnight77587 Bruce Wayne

    I’m sure the ACLU will feel differently than the Hays School Board…get ready for the Legal Fees Hays County!

    Heritage, not Hate!

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